In Convivium #2
With plant phenomenologist Sydney Kale
For my second - and first recorded - In Convivium interview I sat down with plant phenomenologist Sydney Kale. Thanks to Zoom we could connect without leaving our respective temperate rainforests (Westcountry, England/Appalachia, USA). It was a rich and inspiring conversation, all in half an hour or so.
Sydney is currently doing a PhD in Wisdom Studies, “researching with plants rather than about them,” as she put it. More specifically, she’s exploring what it means to be in co-authorship with plants, singly and collectively. Here she is referring, not to them putting pen to paper - we’re coming to realise plants as intelligent, though not dextrously, but to how they show up in the words coming through her. “I don’t believe that I’m speaking on behalf of beings that don’t know how to speak, I’m speaking to those who don’t know how to listen yet, or didn’t hear what I heard.”
Sydney is not the first to observe that “to be in a body is to be in conversation,” and herein lies possibility. Though our minds may not know plant language, our ancient bodies might. And so we can try feeling into those sensations and any words that derive from them. We can be more aware of our whims: why was I drawn to this plant, is there something more profound at play, and how has this changed my state?
Our conversation was replete with everyday inspiration for improving our relationships with plants - indeed any non-human beings - and engaging creatively with them. “I believe that creating with is an effective way of getting to know.” And let us not forget the ethic of care that acknowledgement of agency brings. Would you like to participate with me, dear plant? And if so, what do you wish to create together?
That is the invitation, and here’s the interview. I hope you enjoy both in time.
PS: And here’s The Plant Initiative’s YouTube channel where you can find recordings of their Voices of Plants event mentioned in our conversation.